Slice O' Life

Deb Aoki

Interview by Barb Lien (barb@sequentialtart.com)

Slice O' Life by Deb Aoki is a collection of short humor stories that recently received positive press in Action Girl. In this interview, she tells us about the culture shock of being a Japanese-American, tells us of her fascination with pop culture, and reveals how Manga comics pursuaded her that writing and drawing comics shouldn't have to be simply a male-dominated profession.

Sequential Tart: Tell us about your background (e.g. where you come from, where you went to school, TV shows you watched as a kid) ...

Deb Aoki: Hm. Well, I grew up in Honolulu, Hawaii and spent most of my life there. Hawaii is a neat place to grow up. It's very cosmopolitan and still has a lot of what makes living in the US fun. Being Japanese isn't very exotic in Hawaii, as most of the population is either Asian, Pacific Islanders, Hispanic or mixed. And after 3 generations there, most of us become very Americanized anyhow.

On the plus side, Japanese books, movies and comics are very easy to come by. As I result, I grew up watching Tezuka's Princess Knight and Speed Racer (although I didn't know they were Japanese), read Doraemon and Shojo comics that my grandma would buy for me even though I couldn't read the words, and my dad would take us to Japanese movie theatres to see samurai films like Lone Wolf and Cub and Blind Swordsman when we were in elementary school. Gory stuff for kids, but they had some goofy slapstick elements in them, so it was funny too.

I watched the usual Saturday morning cartoons, Brady Bunch and Gilligan's Island, etc., and there were subtitled Japanese shows like Candy Candy and Kikaida on TV too. I read Richie Rich, Archie, X-Men, Teen Titans and romance comics like anyone else, but really enjoyed the Japanese stuff, because the stories were interesting, and the pictures were cool.

I've made a few forays to the mainland, spent some time at School of Visual Arts in NYC and California College of Arts and Crafts in Oakland, CA, but got my degree in printmaking/graphic design at the University of Hawaii, Manoa. My strip was first published in the UHM school newspaper, Ka Leo in the late 80's, and since then, it's been published in small 'zines, independent weekly newspapers and now the Honolulu Advertiser, which is the morning daily newspaper in Honolulu. I'm back in NYC, have been since February, but still send my stuff back to Honolulu, where it's published weekly.

ST: How'd you get into the comic book business in the first place?

DA: Like any comic fan, I traced pictures of my favorite comics, then drew my own stories. In retrospect, the other benefit of growing up reading Japanese comics is that a lot of the artists were women. It wasn't a boy thing to read comics; I didn't think it was for a long time.

In Japanese comics, there are comics for girls, boys, teenagers, and for adults too. There were comics for first graders, second graders, etc. You could start with the first grade comics, then when you moved up to the next grade, the stories you followed would follow you to the next level. The stories would get progressively more complex, as did the vocablulary and the paper toys (you could build things like rubber band guns or pencil boxes) did too. Comics would grow with you.

The cool thing about the Japanese comics was that they would feature stories about the comic artists, like they were celebrities. They'd show photos of their studios, and give tips on how to draw. Real concrete stuff too - like perspective, how to draw action poses, faces and hands, even how to make your own makeshift light table with a desk lamp, some books and a piece of glass. Most, if not all of the comic creators I followed and enjoyed in those comics were women. It made me feel like being a comics artist was a cool job for a girl.

While I read American comics too, a lot of my drawing mannerisms come from Japanese roots. My stuff doesn't look completely anime-wanna be, leastwise, I don't think so, but I think the influence shows.

Drawing comics for myself and for my friends was really a way to communicate, to tell stories. I once drew a spoof of Star Wars where my friends and I played the Luke/Leia/Han parts and the popular people were Darth Vader and the Empire. It was pretty juvenile, but people would bug me to finish drawing so they could read the next installment. Having an audience, however small, was kind of addicting!

I had been drawing comics for myself, sometimes as pictures I'd draw to accompany my letters home to Hawaii while I lived on the mainland. In my letters, it would mostly be about the experiences I had, feeling a bit like an alien in a new world, etc. When I came back to Hawaii in 1987, I decided to give drawing a real comic strip a shot, and I've been doing it off and on ever since.

Although drawing comics for small newspapers and zines pay next to nothing (I used to joke that my comic strip paycheck would pay for a Snickers bar and a beer), it was a real education to have to pump out a strip, sometimes up to 3 times a week. People, even people you don't know, have no problem telling you that they don't get it. That keeps you on your toes, more so than just drawing for friends. Audiences expect more out of you, and you have to communicate very clearly to a broader audience. You learn real quick that in-jokes aren't acceptable if it means that most people won't get it. So even if it didn't pay very well, it was a valuable experience.

It was also a revelation to have people I didn't know read and react to my work. To this day, I get a kick out of people who say that they remember stuff I did ten years ago, while they were at UH. The advertiser pays a more decent rate, but the big kick is when I get e-mail and letters from people, or the ultimate compliment, seeing my strip cut out and hanging on someone's bulletin board at work or on their fridge. That's very flattering!

ST: Tell us about the comic book work you do (e.g. illustrating, creating a comic, etc.)?

DA: I write and draw a comic strip called Slice O' Life. It's basically about daily observations and annoyances — mostly autobiographical in origin, but not like this is me and the minutia of my life — it's more general. Stuff like Retail Hell, which came from my experiences working retail and some of my friends' experiences too. You'll Mosh To Anything came out of going to several concerts where I got moshed and mashed, etc. Some strips come out of conversations I overhear, or things my friends go through, so it's not only about me, just mostly.

A lot of the strip comes from a Hawaiian point of view, but now that I live in NYC, it's become a little more general. I haven't done too many New York City type stories (there are a lot out there already), but may get around to it as I get used to being here.

One Word Title is a compilation book, where the first half is by my friend Cade Roster, and the second half is my stuff. I printed up about 200 copies w/ color/b&w xerox to give out at SPX this year. I'm hoping to get it printed (rather than just xeroxed like it is now) early next year and try to get around to other cons, trade with other publishers, whatever.

One thought is to expand it into a Hawaiian cartoonists compilation, where I can spotlight other artists' work. Because I'm on the mainland, it makes it easier for me to plug this stuff, do the cons, etc., and represent my comic artist friends who are still back in Hawaii. Given that any airline ticket to the West Coast from Hawaii is already $300 plus hotel, renting a car, etc. etc, doing a con is a huge expense for most Hawaiian artists. I'd like to think that I could help a little by being here and doing some of the legwork.

ST: Best and worst part of your profession?

DA: The best part? Well, like I said earlier, it's a rush to have people I don't know laugh and react to my work. It's very rewarding to know that people like what I do and care enough to let me know that they like it. The best times are when people say, "That's exactly how it feels" or "Yeah! I went through that too!" That always makes my day.

I like that I have some kind of voice, that seems to be more distinctive and effective compared to the writing work I do. (I also wrote feature articles for the Advertiser, did a nightlife column for the Honolulu Weekly, etc.) When I write articles or columns, people call or write to let me know when I misspelled something or got something wrong, or if they disagree with me. Sometimes it felt like they feel like they could have done a better job, or something. I would rarely get props for the good things that came about because of my writing — like publicizing a band or a scene. That's not bad, it's part of the job. Nevertheless, I noticed that some of these same opinions, by virtue of being done in comic book form, got more respect, more leeway as being my opinion, and not as some insult to someone's sensibilities.

Also, as someone who went the gallery show/fine art route for a while, I find that I like the comic creator/fan crowd better. They are generally friendlier and less pretentious, and have a lot more fun. I like meeting other artists, and trading books. It's nice to be a creator and a fan, because you can give something back to other artists by trading.

The worst thing about being a cartoonist? Hm. Tough one. Well, one would be that it's not easy to make a living from it. Heck, I don't know too many people who do. I have a real job, but that's not a bad thing, because a lot of my material comes from those experiences. If I only stayed home and drew comics, I think I'd live a much too insulated life to be able to keep drawing strips that wouldn't be too self-absorbed. I'm not that connected with the mainstream comics market, so I don't have any pressures to draw superhero stuff or try to do a syndicate-able daily strip. I just do what I can do, what I like to do.

I guess I could say the worst thing are deadlines. I still struggle with them and the artist's block that comes with pumping out a weekly strip. There are strips I've done that came out pretty half-ass that I whipped out just so I could make deadline. I cringe when I look at some of those. But you gotta do what you gotta do to get it out on time. I have to accept it and hope that I'll do better the next time.

ST: Current project you'd like to hype (ie, your comic)?

DA: Well, I still have copies of One Word Title no. 1, which is about as much a collector's item as anything. Once I'm out of 'em, it'll be a little bit until I print more, because I don't have access to the great copy machines I had before (I changed jobs). Since I got that nice plug in Action Girl and one in Box Office Poison, people send me like $2 or so, and I send them a copy of my book with some extra bonus strips. It works out pretty well. To get a copy, email me at aoki@lava.net or send me $2 at my home address (103-19 68th Rd. #3J, Forest Hills, NY 11375) and I'll send 'em out. I like trades too, so that's always an option. I hope I can get a printed version out by APE or at least by the San Diego Con this year, so I guess that would be the other way to check it out. I guess the way to go is to email me or send me a postcard, and I'll put you on a mailing list that I'll send updates with my con schedule (when I get it confirmed).

ST: Who are your influences, both in terms of comics and in other art forms?

DA: Phew. Well, I gotta say the Hernandez Brothers' Love and Rockets was a huge influence. That was the first time I saw comics that were adult but not sci-fi, porno, dope comics or heavy metal type stuff. It was inspiring that these guys were doing comics about their lives in LA, reflecting their Latino roots and with engaging story-telling. It has a great sense of place, and you can feel the love these guys have for their characters and the work they do. It broadened my idea of what comics could be.

Chris Ware (Acme Novelty Library) has a really brilliant sense of tweaking with the comics form, so that it's really closer to fine art than comic books. I'm nowhere near his ability, but I admire it a lot. Art Spiegelman's Maus is a book I really respect, because he told a very personal story with a balanced, non-preachy voice. I like what Jessica Abel (Artbabe) and Adrian Tomine (Optic Nerve) are doing. Jeff Smith's Bone is one of my favorites now too.

As I mentioned earlier, Japanese comics are a big influence, stylistically and for giving me that love of the medium. I like the intimate stories in girls or shojo comics, the cleverness and whimsy of Akira Toriyama (who does Dragonball and Dr. Slump), the sweeping epic stories and breathtaking craftsmanship of artists like Katsuhiro Otomo's (Akira) and the quirky, avant garde stuff too. I like the mix that's out there.

Rumiko Takahashi (Inu Yasha) and Wendy Pini (Elfquest) know how to tell a good story, and Matt Groening's (Life in Hell, The Simpsons) sense of humor has always appealed to me. Kyle Baker (Why I Hate Saturn) and Evan Dorkin (Milk and Cheese) are very clever and funny. Bill Watterson (Calvin and Hobbes) raised the bar for daily comics that I haven't seen anyone match lately. Dilbert, For Better or Worse and Doonesbury have their good days. I don't read as much superhero stuff anymore, but liked Frank Miller's Dark Knight Returns and Alan Moore's Watchmen. Nowadays, I get a kick out of Astro City.

Otherwise, I love all the usual stuff: Japanese woodblock prints, Viennese artists like Klimt and Schiele, contemporary artists like Masami Teraoka, Robert Rauschenberg, Chris Tansey, Damien Hirsch, Raymond Pettibone, Manuel Ocampo, etc. And I still love printmaking: etching, lithography and screen printing.

Personal influence-wise, I'd say Trina Robbins has been a great source of encouragement. She comes to Hawaii every now and then and has always been very helpful. And of course, my grandma, who used to buy me all those Japanese comics when I was a kid.

ST: Why are you going the indie route?

DA: Mostly because it lets me go at my own pace. I draw what I like, about things I care about and don't have to stress too much about sales figures or demographics. It gives me the freedom to find my own voice and screw around and make mistakes sometimes. I'm still learning, and know I have a long way to go, as far as drawing and story-telling skills. Having a paid weekly gig allows me the chance to practice and grow. It also gives me an excuse to travel and meet people, which is something I really enjoy.

My type of comics doesn’t have much of a place in the mainstream comics industry, so why even try to break into that? If my work finds an audience, I'm satisfied. I'm not looking to get rich out of it, I'm just enjoying myself. I have a regular job to pay the bills, so this is my fun and sometimes my therapy.

ST: Special challenges for you in comics because of your gender?

DA: Going into comic shops. Some shops aren't bad, but some places are just disgusting and a disgrace to retailing. How does anyone find anything in those cluttered and dusty places if they aren't familiar with the different publishers or titles to begin with? It just seems very unfriendly to people who aren't comics people, which is a shame if the American comics industry wants to attract a broader audience to stay alive.

I've also gone to comics shops where I've been hit on by the sales guys. This was not fun, because then I had to avoid those shops like the plague and find another comics shop to go to. Most sales people try to be helpful, but I've met my share of really surly and condescending ones too. Then again, that would be true of most retailers nowadays.

I really didn't have a sense that being a female artist was a big deal, until I went to the San Diego Con in 1990. It was eye opening to be in a mostly male crowd - both fan and artist wise. Prior to that, I didn't think it was unusual to be a girl who liked to draw comics. After that, I turned around and noticed that most of the other comics artists who drew for the UH paper like I did, and the other artists that I knew in Hawaii were mostly guys. It was weird to realize that, because that had not occurred to me before.

I don't see being a female artist as being a handicap so much, because I haven't been the victim of discrimination. I rather like it sometimes, because now I have a different point of view and a different way of telling stories, which is a strength, rather than a weakness.

I'm not that hung up on the big boobs and big guns aesthetic out there in the mainstream, because I know that's just how the market is now. It's not my thing, but if other people like it, God bless 'em. At least they are buying and reading comics and keeping people in the industry employed. That can't be all bad.

ST: Any advice for those of us who want to get into the comics industry?

DA: Hm. I think I'm still in a position to need advice myself, being such a neophyte to the self-publishing thing. At those rare times when other beginning artists come to me for advice, I tell them to just get out there and get published any way you can. Approach the local weekly paper, your high school or college newspaper, music zines, whatever, and get them to publish your stuff. Even if you only get paid a few bucks, or do it for free, it's really worth it. The practice and discipline you get from drawing regularly, being exposed to an audience (however small), and the opportunities that come from letting other people know what you can do that can lead to bigger and better things are all real advantages of being out there, any way you can.

More practically, I've gained a lot by having formal graphic design and print/paste-up experience. It helps to know how to make a clean layout, how to prepare stuff to take to the printer and how to talk to a printer to get what you want. It really makes a difference to know that stuff and has saved me a lot of money and headaches.

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