Super Women: Sera Gamble

An(other) Interview with Supernatural's Executive Story Editor

By Mary Borsellino
March 1, 2007

When I interviewed Supernatural Executive Story Editor Sera Gamble for December's Sequential Tart last year, fandom kind of exploded with glee at some of the things she had to say.

Since then, the show's season has progressed, and one of the then-upcoming episodes that Sera discussed in our chat — "Houses of the Holy" — has aired. I caught up with Ms Gamble again to talk faith, finales, music, and Sam Winchester's sex life.

Sequential Tart: There was a huge reader response to one comment you made in our last interview, and so I'm going to skip straight back to that topic and still the fluttering fan hearts: Tell us everything you're able to about Sam getting some hot sex, please.

Sera Gamble: I can tell you what doesn’t happen. Sam does not ask some nice girl to go steady. He doesn’t bring her chocolates and roses. He doesn’t even consider going, “Hey, Dean, I really like this chick, and she’s rather athletic, so what do you say we let her ride along in the backseat of the Impala for the rest of the season? She can be like Buffy, only brunette.”

On the other hand, Sam isn’t bang-the-random-waitress guy, either. What happens with this girl means something serious to him.

One thing I was clear about from the start was that Sam may be sensitive, but he’s not a wuss. He’s a demon hunter, for God’s sake. My pitch for the concept of the sex scene was basically this: “He totally slams her up against the wall.”

My rough draft of the scene cut away fairly early in the proceedings. You could say I restrained myself. I wasn’t quite sure where “too far” was for our show. I turned in the rough draft, and Eric handed it back to me with notes. I flipped to that page, and in the margin, he’d written “more sex?” I was like, “Yes!” So, yeah, if the final cut doesn’t include sweaty, acrobatic full-frontal male nudity? It’s not ‘cause we didn’t write it in.

ST: And now, to jump all the way from the profane to the sacred: "Houses of the Holy." Supernatural, in its own special mullet-rock way, seems to include a recurring theme that intense religious conviction of any kind can be extremely dangerous — even as the show touches on how deeply rewarding faith can be for those individuals who find it. Would you agree with this as an interpretation of the more spiritual aspects show, or do you see it in another way?

SG: Yes, I would agree with that. It certainly sums up my personal opinion on the matter. Bob Singer’s a pretty cool character, but if you want to get him worked up, ask him how he feels about fundamentalists. Actually, ask any of us.

But faith ... that’s different. It’s personal, and in its purest form it is without dogma. I’m awed by the work created by people of faith. The writings of Rilke and Hafiz and Teresa of Avila move me to tears. They’re not writing about the limitations imposed by organized religion; they’re trying to express how it feels to be part of something so much bigger than themselves. And yet ... I’m not them. I search for that little kernel of knowing inside myself and often I can’t find it at all. When Dean says, “You have faith. I’m happy for you. I bet it makes stuff easier,” that’s how I feel. It’s like half of me wants to pray and half is wearing a lab coat, studying the impulse and saying, “But that makes no sense whatsoever.” Much as I’d like to, I can’t just shrug and say, nah, there’s nothing, there’s only physics and death and being polite in traffic. And much as I’d like to, I can’t just say I definitely believe. The rub is, even when I can’t find faith, I can’t shake the longing for it.

When I started working on Supernatural, the last thing I expected was to be given the chance to explore this stuff through the world of the show. I’m glad Eric and Bob periodically let me go off in that direction.

ST: You mentioned last time that "Houses of the Holy" was a tricky episode for you to write. Are you pleased with how it turned out, now that it's completed and aired? I've seen heartfelt reactions to it from fans with a variety of beliefs and non-beliefs; it seems to have spoken to people from a wide range of quite dissimilar viewpoints.

SG: I think all the debate inspired by the episode is fantastic. People responded so thoughtfully. It’s an unusually quiet, moody episode for our show, but it seems like a lot of viewers were happy to go there with us.

I’m proud of the episode. It’s not perfect, but it’s ambitious. It takes our characters somewhere new and uncomfortable — which is how you get characters to grow.

My favorite moment happens in the church, when Father Reynolds is explaining the Archangel Michael. Watch Dean; he gets this expression, like, “Wait a minute — you’re talking about me.”

ST: Of the episodes Supernatural you've had a hand in so far, is there one — or more — that you're particularly proud of? Are there any that you wish you could have another shot at?

SG: I have an easier time picking out moments within episodes that I think are cool. Bits of scenes that illuminated something interesting about the characters. Like when Dean punches Sam in the face in “Bloodlust.” Or when the Demon in “Crossroad Blues” tells Dean she knows his secret — that his first thought every morning is “I can’t do this anymore.”

Honestly, when I brag, it’s usually about something gory and disgusting that really freaked people out, like the severed vampire head in “Bloodlust” or the knife through the eye in “Nightmare.”

As for wanting another shot at any of them — hell, yes. All of them.

ST: Can you talk a little about how you research the background lore incorporated into your storylines, like Hoodoo for "Crossroad Blues", or the Catholic rites for "Houses of the Holy"?

SG: Google is my dearest friend. I can’t imagine doing this job in the pre-internet era. What did TV writers do? Hang out at the library all day? I googled and discovered a comprehensive Hoodoo archive called luckymojo.com. That helped tremendously with “Crossroad Blues.”

We have a consultant we call “The Latin Guy” who translates for us and makes sure our incantations are grammatically correct. For “Houses of the Holy” we also called an actual Catholic priest to make sure the prayer we used for the Last Rites was kosher. As it were.

ST: Do the legends that the creative team want to use typically come first, with the episode forming around their elements, or do you go looking for a folk tale that fits into the kind of story you plan to tell?

SG: It differs from story to story. But usually, with monster-of-the-week episodes, we start with a scary idea, like killer clowns or a haunted movie set, then generate a story about it. Or try to — sometimes we discover that a certain monster or legend doesn’t have enough juice for five acts of story. At which point we scramble for new options, usually under some form of time crunch that makes everyone really cranky.

ST: Have you had a chance to suggest your Nightmare on Elm Street / Being John Malkovich episode idea yet? If Eric Kripke's resistant, you can always point out that Freddy Krueger was pretty good at bringing the gore along when he showed up.

SG: Funny thing happened on the way to that pitch. Eric popped into my office and said he wanted me to do a werewolf episode. I was too busy suppressing the urge to do a little happy dance to pitch anything. At the risk of sounding like a twelve-year-old geek-boy — how awesome are werewolves? They’re very A-list monsters.

We do have an episode coming up that plays with hallucinations and alternate realities, so that will cover some of the same ground. But, yeah, an ultra-gory Freddy Krueger thing sounds delicious. Pray for a Season Three.

ST: There've been some comments in interviews with Supernatural's producers about how planned supporting-character arcs have evolved into something different as the season progressed — Jo and Ava, for example, have both been given different roles than those they were originally introduced for. Have there been any other instances of this with other characters? Have there been any scrapped storylines for the Winchesters themselves?

SG: We don’t have very many other recurring characters. I think making a supporting cast work on this show is tricky. I don’t help matters, because I just love killing them off.

We don’t scrap major storylines for the boys so much as adjust them as we go along. That’s the thing with TV: the train is moving the whole time. You have to figure things out without letting everything come screeching to a halt. As for smaller stories — we scrap those constantly. In Season One, Raelle Tucker and I were going to do a succubus episode; we worked on it for four torturous weeks. It was cheesy and awful. I was so relieved when we were let off the hook. When Eric wants to mess with me, he just has to say the word “succubus.”

ST: I understand the hero's-journey significance of removing the mentor at a pivotal moment on the quest, but I'll lose my membership to the Daddy Winchester Death Denial Club if I don't ask: are we going to see John again any time soon?

SG: There’s a Death Denial Club? That’s funny. Hate to break it to you, but John Winchester is not only dead, he’s burning in hell. As for whether he’s enough of a bad-ass to swing a cameo anyway ... if I were a betting woman, I’d lay money on yes.

Sorry, that’s not an actual promise. But I can say Eric’s got ideas.

ST: Is there anything you can tell us about what's coming in the season's finale?

SG: The finale is a two-parter. I’m writing Part One and Eric is writing Part Two. So much cool shit happens, 99% of which I am not allowed to talk about. Some things I can tease you with: We do reveal what happened to Ava. And a lot of questions raised in the Pilot are answered. And, needless to say, many terrible, horrible things happen to Sam and Dean. We put them through the wringer, then take them out only to shove them in the meat grinder.

Oh, also — and I am grinning as I say this — the last five minutes of Part One will have you howling. And when you scream, “No they didn’t!” ... Yes, we did. Waiting for Part Two is going to be pure sweet torture.

ST: How's the long-term looking? Is the outlook good for a third season?

SG: Well, for whatever my opinion’s worth — I’m optimistic. But it isn’t like I’m privy to the top-secret CW meetings or anything; I know the same things as everyone else. Our limbo-y, “on the bubble” situation is extremely common. Every season, a bunch of shows stand on the guillotine platform and wait to see if the guy in the hood points at them.

I know that Supernatural fans worry themselves into ulcer-land about cancellation. It’s gratifying to work on a show that viewers have so deeply invested in. Every Friday morning, when I look at the ratings, I remind myself that our fans kick those other shows’ fans’ asses.

ST: What are you working on apart from Supernatural at the moment? You mentioned a film script last time — how's that going?

SG: God, why did I mention that? That’s an invitation for people to keep asking about it until it’s done or I die, whichever comes first. Writing a movie takes much longer than writing an episode of Supernatural, that’s for sure. For the record, it’s going well, but ack! No more about that.

I’ve mostly been busy racing to the Season Two finish line. I’ve also been collecting rejection letters from many of the most prestigious literary magazines in America. Also, I have a short story coming out in The Best American Erotica 2007 on February 14th. And a friend and I started a funny little blog called Very Hot Jews, which could not be less like the work I do for Supernatural.

ST: What're some of the shows, films, books and albums you particularly like?

SG: I watch a fair amount of reality TV, because it doesn’t feel like work. Stuff like Project Runway. House is my favorite show on network television. And lately, I’ve been obsessed with Alec Baldwin on 30 Rock.

Pan’s Labyrinth was probably my favorite movie of the year. What is with those Mexican directors? Is it something in the food? Do I need to move to Mexico? Because I will.

There are two books I’ve read lately that I kept thinking about long after I’d finished them: Joan Didion’s The Year of Magical Thinking and Never Let Me Go by Kazuo Ishiguro. I’ve also been digging on the Y: The Last Man graphic novels and Charlie Houston’s noir vampire detective books.

As for music ... don’t get me started. I’m that chick who’s always shoving CDs at her friends, saying they simply have to listen to this amazing band. And I listen to the same album on constant repeat for weeks. It’s like good songs embed in my brain and I have to play them over and over to scratch the itch. My roommates in college came close to hiring a hit man. Some albums I’ve worn a hole in: Bright Eyes’ I’m Wide Awake It’s Morning, MIA’s Arular, Regina Spektor’s Soviet Kitsch, and TV On The Radio’s Desperate Youth, Bloodthirsty Babes.

My latest repeater is this brilliant cabaret-punk album called Yes, Virginia ... by The Dresden Dolls. Also, I went to see Damien Rice in December and Glen Hansard and Marketa Irglova opened for him. They have a beautiful album called The Swell Season that is threatening to overtake Yes, Virginia .... I was listening to it on my iPod the other day and this woman came up to me, making strange hand motions. Finally I realized she was trying to tell me I had the music up so loud everyone in the room could hear it. That was kind of embarrassing. I need better headphones.

ST: Is there a particular lesson you've learned as a writer, or as a creative brain in general, that you think was especially significant? For some people it's a piece of advice they're given that makes things click, or an experience that provides new perspective — has anything like that happened to you?

SG: It’s hard to narrow it down to one, so I’ll just go with what’s popping into my mind right now. I had this acting teacher at UCLA, a very buff Black man who wore short-shorts and gay pride necklaces. He was refreshingly pragmatic. He never got too precious about theater; if you were looking at the floor, he would tell you that the guys in the last row paid $85 for the tickets — so they better be able to see your face. He had this phrase he would use a lot (um, besides “If you don’t get specific with your character, you will be fucked without grease,” which was also helpful in its own way); he used to tell me, lovingly and sternly, “You are your own particular flavor.” He was telling me not to get caught up in trying to fit in, that my job as an artist was to cultivate my own voice. When I’m writing something I fear might be too “out there,” I remember him saying that and just go for it.

ST: Finally, I got four separate requests to ask you this question if I did a follow-up chat, so: how are you so awesome?

SG: I’m not sure there’s a way to answer this question that won’t make me sound like a complete asshat. Can I just say I’m glad those four separate people think I’m awesome?

SeraGamble.com — Sera's official website
Sera Gamble Interview — Mary's December 2006 Interview with Sera.